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    La nuova BBS è in fase Alpha. I post precedenti al 22 luglio 2024 potrebbero non essere trasferibili, ma rimarranno disponibili per la lettura su /old/.

    As far as I understand, most (all?) fediverse #ActivityPub software does not use the Client-to-server protocol from the specs (https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/#client-to-server-interactions) but rather use custom APIs instead.

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    • evan@cosocial.caE Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
      evan@cosocial.ca @hugh@ausglam.space
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      @hugh Mastodon already had an API when they adopted the ActivityPub protocol, and they did not want to use the ActivityPub API.

      I think they made the mistake of thinking that a standard API had to replace their app-specific API, rather than being complimentary.

      This is too bad; ActivityPub was designed to make clients innovative and interesting, and let servers concentrate on performance and reliability.

      I think as we get more ActivityPub API clients, servers will start supporting the API.

      evan@cosocial.caE 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
      • evan@cosocial.caE Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
        evan@cosocial.ca @evan@cosocial.ca
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        @hugh I should also say that my book for O'Reilly Media has really good coverage of the ActivityPub API.

        Link Preview Image
        ActivityPub book

        In September 2023, I started work on a book about ActivityPub for O'Reilly Media. As of September 2024, the book is now available! Ebook The book is available from several different ebook vendors in different formats. O'Reilly Learning Platform Amazon Apple Books ebooks.com Kobo Print The book is not yet available in print format. O'Reilly…

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        Evan Prodromou's Blog (evanp.me)

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        • julia@eepy.moeJ Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
          julia@eepy.moe @hugh@ausglam.space
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          @hugh@ausglam.space it's because clients can't make any assumptions about ActivityPub data using the C2S model. They have to perform full client side parsing and linking, then figure out some way to display this graph structure of data they've been given. The fact of the matter is that ActivityPubs design is overly broad, and no client could account for this. So, instances implement an API offering a simple, watered down format, plus the benefit of having stability even if the software moves to another federation protocol down the line.

          There's also the matter that almost all ActivityPub implementations do not store posts in their database as JSON-LD, instead they unmarshal the data from it and store it in a concise format. Reconstructing it for the purposes of C2S would be inefficient and clunky.

          erincandescent@akko.erincandescent.netE 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
          • smallcircles@social.coopS Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
            smallcircles@social.coop
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            @julian imho..

            Pros and cons of decentralization + current state of fedi as a microblogging dominant thing.

            We're on a fragmentiverse,where community waters down, what you send today is lost in history tomorrow. There is no search, no archive.

            We are on a good path but the kind of organization we need to mature social web open standards and enabling technologies is not well supported on fedi.

            Barrier to sign up to a single forum removed, easier access, but dispersal of the community efforts.

            smallcircles@social.coopS 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
            • smallcircles@social.coopS Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
              smallcircles@social.coop @smallcircles@social.coop
              ultima modifica di

              @julian

              To get things on a forum archive in the right place, I'd have to mention that place in my mastodon toot. And then the next place too, unless they happen to be cross-federated with the other one.

              One thing we discussed in the path was Unbound Groups brought in a FEP by Diogo of GNU Social, whereby the groups aren't bound to a single server instance where they are defined as an actor. This might help give the same community belonging that is more stimulating for collaborative actions.

              smallcircles@social.coopS 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
              • smallcircles@social.coopS Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                smallcircles@social.coop @smallcircles@social.coop
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                @julian

                And a deeper discussion is that there really is no "the fedi", or they shouldn't be that notion for our future of social networking. Unless you want to refer to some broad category. I see 'fediverse' the same as internet and web, category names.

                What do we want to DO on this fedi of ours? What needs do we have wrt communications online?

                Microblogging certainly nice, I am doing it right now. But is shouldn't be the only hammer and everything nails. Enfin, you know the discussion :)

                evan@cosocial.caE 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
                • evan@cosocial.caE Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                  evan@cosocial.ca @smallcircles@social.coop
                  ultima modifica di

                  @smallcircles @julian It's ok for people to have conversations they want in the places they already are.

                  jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.netJ smallcircles@social.coopS 2 Risposte Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
                  • jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.netJ Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                    jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net @evan@cosocial.ca
                    ultima modifica di

                    @evan @smallcircles @julian This. And it is our task as developers to make all those places safe by default. When we fail to protect our users, we are to blame.

                    smallcircles@social.coopS 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
                    • smallcircles@social.coopS Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                      smallcircles@social.coop @evan@cosocial.ca
                      ultima modifica di

                      @evan @julian

                      For sure. Federating SocialHub was a long-term desire, and we got called out for being on a non-decentralized forum software talking decentralization. Rightfully so. But it is not all roses. There is more to do, which is nice as we are slowly doing it together :)

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                      • smallcircles@social.coopS Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                        smallcircles@social.coop @jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
                        ultima modifica di

                        @jwildeboer @evan @julian

                        💯 Write software for online spaces where people can be safe!

                        Though I have a slight issue with 'users', and feel that with that terminology you already lose the first round, esp. in social networking.

                        just small circles 🕊 (@smallcircles@social.coop)

                        To all the devs who still use "users" as common terminology. They are not your users. They are not junkies where you can just push your warez down their throat. People are checking your software out, for a whole host of different reasons. To see if your solution serves their needs. They are rich individuals with countless human traits, interests and dreams. By using the term you detach yourself emotionally. Don't other them as users. It has an alienating effect, in a time where we need to unite.

                        favicon

                        social.coop (social.coop)

                        "The farmer protects the hens against the fox by building a fence around them". A single word puts so much distance between people.

                        jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.netJ 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
                        • jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.netJ Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                          jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net @smallcircles@social.coop
                          ultima modifica di

                          @smallcircles @evan @julian Feel free to find a better term to define the people that use the technology we developers give them. Doesn't change the fact the we developers are responsible for our code, not those that use it.

                          smallcircles@social.coopS 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
                          • smallcircles@social.coopS Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                            smallcircles@social.coop @jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
                            ultima modifica di

                            @jwildeboer @evan @julian

                            Yes, we must be responsible, create safe spaces, etc. Yet how we talk with or about other people matters a lot. There's endless debate around developer privilege, sometimes fair, sometimes not. But there is a lot of 'we know what is best for the user' explicit/implicit outcome.

                            If we are so diverse, why not walk that adventure together, discuss needs beyond the tech circle?

                            An analogy is development aid, where the West knows best what help to give.. they think.

                            jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.netJ smallcircles@social.coopS 2 Risposte Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
                            • jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.netJ Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                              jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net @smallcircles@social.coop
                              ultima modifica di

                              @smallcircles @evan @julian I honestly don't care that much about philosophical abstractions and discussions. "My code must protect the rights and privacy of the people that use my code. Always. Provable." is my mantra :)

                              smallcircles@social.coopS 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
                              • smallcircles@social.coopS Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                smallcircles@social.coop @smallcircles@social.coop
                                ultima modifica di

                                @jwildeboer @evan @julian

                                I am only observing that there is a missing focus on the social side, the soft and fluffy parts that many devs hate. And in return what we build is kind of a technosphere, missing the social layers to really click with people. Unless with the help of some 'digital transformation' which is the opposite of what we should be doing.. bring tech to be supportive of people, anticipate their true needs.

                                Anyway, I'm side-stepping. You know this well, and do wonders wrt help!

                                1 Risposta Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
                                • smallcircles@social.coopS Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                  smallcircles@social.coop
                                  ultima modifica di

                                  @julian

                                  More interesting angle to your question, maybe why asked, is to "reimagine forums" in our new age of social networking.

                                  Yesterday I had a discussion about https://blocks.githubnext.com "Reimagine repositories". Great ideation starting point. What is a repository actually? Container of a solution? Or .. what?

                                  Maybe a forum is single-person software, attached to the social graph of the social web? Tapping into activity streams and knowledge bases. To 'slice' our personalized community views?

                                  julian@community.nodebb.orgJ 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
                                  • smallcircles@social.coopS Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                    smallcircles@social.coop @jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
                                    ultima modifica di

                                    @jwildeboer @evan @julian

                                    I often mention this 'peopleverse' as something to envision, a hypothetical place where our offline and online worlds seamlessly connect and support our daily lives.

                                    It is a philosophical abstraction, but it is a useful one. What happens when I open my eyes in the morning and events starts flowing in on the single timeline of the life that I lead?

                                    (One thing is that I can go online and engage in global-square twitter 2.0 where people build protection after the fact.)

                                    jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.netJ smallcircles@social.coopS 2 Risposte Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
                                    • jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.netJ Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                      jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net @smallcircles@social.coop
                                      ultima modifica di

                                      @smallcircles @evan @julian I call it the "Internet of people" as opposed to the "internet of machines, companies" we have right now :)

                                      smallcircles@social.coopS 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta Rispondi Cita 0
                                      • smallcircles@social.coopS Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                        smallcircles@social.coop @smallcircles@social.coop
                                        ultima modifica di

                                        @jwildeboer @evan @julian

                                        Anyway, at this point I may make a cross-reference to old notes I made wrt major challenges we face, and still do today.

                                        Link Preview Image
                                        Major challenges for the Fediverse

                                        Various forum topics highlights big challenges for the Fediverse to overcome. Below there is a list of those, and all of them are within scope of Social Coding #foundations to contribute to solutions. Challenge Desc…

                                        favicon

                                        Discuss Social Coding (discuss.coding.social)

                                        I think we can only hope to address these challenges if we do much more than just care for our code and protect our users. I understand where you come from and underline your ethics and values. We are kindred spirits in the commons But I am arguing that we may benefit from a slight perspective shift to help reimagine social.

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                                        • smallcircles@social.coopS Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                          smallcircles@social.coop @jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
                                          ultima modifica di

                                          @jwildeboer @evan @julian

                                          Yes, that is already a huge improvement. And such phrases help align minds and thinking to explore what that should mean in practice.

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                                          • smallcircles@social.coopS Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                            smallcircles@social.coop @steve@social.technoetic.com
                                            ultima modifica di

                                            @steve @naturzukunft @skyfaller @hugh @bob
                                            @evan

                                            Good thread!
                                            I wanna collect C2S compliant projects here: https://codeberg.org/fediverse/delightful-fediverse-apps/issues/130

                                            I'm planning updates to the 4 fedi-related https://delightful.club lists and reorganising them. Have a humongous maintenance backlog too.

                                            In this reorg I want to highlight the more interesting, unexplored and innovative directions that our fediverse may be evolving to.

                                            The other day I had discussion on 2 top categories for fedi apps list: https://thoresson.social/@anders/114433900582811705

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