The history of document file formats:

[rl_dane@polymaths.social]

The history of document file formats:

1980s: I'm going to design my own proprietary binary file format using my own proprietary disk format for this one proprietary computer vendor

1990s: I'm going to design this really efficient binary file format for use on all computers. It won't be documented, but it'll be reverse-engineered without TOO much trouble.

2000s: I'm just going to schlep all of the data structures in memory into an eldritch-horror XML format and encapsulate that into a zip file. I'll have our imps, I mean, engineers create a script to convert parts of the source code into an "open format" specification that requires fifteen reams of paper to print out.

2010s: Lol cloud go brrrrr! <inserts crayon into nostril while eating glue>

2020s: 2000s, are you OKAY? Do you need a... rabies shot, or something???

[dmoonfire@polymaths.social]

@rl_dane I still like the zip archive approach but with clean files inside them.

... except when I want the file to be checked into Git.

[rl_dane@polymaths.social]

@dmoonfire

... or when you want to search for text inside of a directory full of those files.

Just use a decent binary format to begin with, brah.

[dmoonfire@polymaths.social]

@rl_dane Git diff and binary formats don't play well together.

[dmoonfire@polymaths.social]

@rl_dane But thanks to zip archives, I have done truly horrible things to ODT files back when I still used those. :D

[rl_dane@polymaths.social]

@dmoonfire

What do you use now?

[dmoonfire@polymaths.social]

@rl_dane Markdown with YAML headers for writing, JSON for configuration files (because I can't get my head wrapped properly around KDL), and whatever language needs the source (which also lets me push it over to a packaged system like NPM or NuGet if needed).

[amin@polymaths.social]

@dmoonfire @rl_dane

Lately I've been using TOML for configuration files.

[dmoonfire@polymaths.social]

@amin @rl_dane Yeah, I want to allow that though I don't really "enjoy" TOML. It works and works fairly well in many situations.

[amin@polymaths.social]

@dmoonfire @rl_dane

I don't really "enjoy" it either, but it does a great job and I hate it less than all the other options.

[dmoonfire@polymaths.social]

@amin @rl_dane I like the look and feel of KDL (https://kdl.dev/) but the C# and Rust developer experience isn't quite as polished.

[dmoonfire@polymaths.social]

@amin @rl_dane It isn't whitespace based :P Allows terminators, and has a decent nested structure. Plus the ability to specify specific data types and has more of a XML-like processing.

title "Bob"
character "Gary"
character "Steve" referenced=#true

[amin@polymaths.social]

@dmoonfire @rl_dane

I admit I don't really like that the languages I use now are whitespace-based.

…but if I allow myself to forget that they are, I really enjoy using them. And I'm not sure what that says.

[rl_dane@polymaths.social]

@amin @dmoonfire

function > form, I guess.

[rl_dane@polymaths.social]

@amin @dmoonfire

(But I personally much rather use punctuation than whitespace. By a parsec)

[amin@polymaths.social]

@rl_dane @dmoonfire

I mean the way I see it you've gotta use whitespace either way if you want things to be readable.

[rl_dane@polymaths.social]

@amin @dmoonfire

Absolutely, and I wouldn't even mind that much if a set amount/style of whitespace were enforced by linter or whatnot.

It's the whitespace-as-punctuation that is weird to me.

[amin@polymaths.social]

@rl_dane @dmoonfire

From a technical standpoint, line breaks certainly punctuate. ;)

[amin@polymaths.social]

@rl_dane @dmoonfire

hence poetry

[amin@polymaths.social]

@rl_dane @dmoonfire

Python is poetry. JavaScript is prose.