Recently there has been a lot of discourse about ActivityPub and AT Protocol which has been quite dividing and heated.
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> "I … like the idea that when protests break out in Tahrir Square, I can subscribe to a global feed that gives me an idea of what is going on…"
I think the fact you would automatically trust such a global feed is incredibly problematic.
I'd rather trust people. Individually. And even then my trust only extends so far.
I had a similarly long discussion yesterday about Epistemology. There is a sense in which I am continuing that here today.
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@jackwilliambell @thisismissem who said “trust”? I just want to have it. The more the better.
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> "who said “trust”? I just want to have it. The more the better."
So you're fine with, for example, an algorithm subtly manipulating the information stream to gaslight you?
Because EXACTLY THAT has happened, is happening, and will (eventually) happen to any feed controlled by a central authority. No matter who the authority is.
I'd rather take a stochastic chance of getting as much different information as possible from non-centralized sources.
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@jackwilliambell @thisismissem you are conflating two things. The existence of global feeds that aggregate world wide != a *single* global feed managed in a non-democratic manner.
But signing off from this thread now. -
@thisismissem This would make a great session at the next FediForum next month! If we can keep the discussion civil :-) Any plans to run such a session? Let us know if we can help. https://fediforum.org
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@fediforum I could certainly run a session on this, as long as I have moderators to help.
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@thisismissem we will make it happen!!
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@thisismissem No offense to anyone that has made any protocol, but I don't give a shit which protocol it is as long as it's an open protocol we can access openly, freely, forever. I think the fear with AT Protocol is that Bsky might enshitiffy it? I don't know enough about AT to even know if that's possible.
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@firesidefedi yeah, one could argue that, but there's so many other people building in the AT Protocol ecosystem that it'd only affect maybe one part of the network, there already exists alternative AppViews, Clients, Relays, and PDS's, especially if we look at the wonderful work from the Blacksky team (blackskyweb.xyz)
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It is inappropriate to create a "statements" directory in the repository, with this as the only item in it, making it seem as if it was an official SWICG statement.
Things like these are, at the very least, called a "draft" until they officially pass. You are doing your cause (to which I object anyway) no favor with this fishy activity.
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@ikuturso @stefan @mastodonmigration @thisismissem
and?
if it enshittifies, people will simply migrate to other PDSes.
and those PDSes will start looking at different relays
the only thing i am concerned about is the appview thing, but i believe that deals with protocol content rather than any actual implementation (where the real nub of the control is)
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@breathOfLife @ikuturso @stefan @thisismissem
The problem is a matter of scale. There is no way for 99% of users to "simply" move anywhere.
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@tuxwise @nik I had reason to believe it was fine, anyway, it's been taken down and replaced with this statement: https://github.com/swicg/general/blob/master/statements/2025-09-05-activitypub-and-atproto-discourse.md
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@mastodonmigration @ikuturso @stefan @thisismissem
aye, there's the rub
even on mastodon, migrating to another server is hard.
you have to follow a 50 step process, create another account, then move all your stuff...
it would be hella nice to have a one-click button that simply moves all your shit to another server.
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@mastodonmigration @breathOfLife @ikuturso @stefan Blacksky already recently managed a mass migration away from Bluesky hosted PDS's for their community. Similar could happen if needed for other communities.
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@breathOfLife @ikuturso @stefan @thisismissem
Yes, that would be nice.
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@thisismissem
Ya the thing I would like to see more than infighting is fedi apps learning how to behave like PDSes and bluesky learning how to ingest AP -
@ikuturso Yeah, neither one is perfect.
The first site has an open issue on GitHub to include other parts of the ATProto stack, hopefully that will be added soon.
Custom feeds and labelers? · Issue #1 · ricci/distributed-social-networks
Comments and pull requests, including other metrics for measuring distribution and resiliency, are welcome! Taking you up on this offer! I'd say custom feeds and third-party labelers are part of the story of how Bluesky/Atmosphere is dec...
GitHub (github.com)
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@mastodonmigration @breathOfLife @ikuturso @stefan this exists in the ATmosphere — https://tektite.cc/
and a demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SdmiCRYeZA
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@thisismissem @breathOfLife @ikuturso @stefan
Yes, the Blacksky migration was impressive. It still did not change the overall percentage distribution numbers very much. It seems like proponents of AT Protocol should welcome criticism of too much dominance of Bluesky PBC and support more independent Blacksky type efforts.
Why, if Bluesky is actually serious about wanting AT Protocol to be decentralized, is there not more overt support for moving the numbers in a truly meaningful way.
